בפרק זה, ביחד עם ירדן מרציאנו, מיכאל מתעמק בשילוב המסקרן של זהויות להט״ב ונכות. ירדן מספרת על המסע מעורר ההשראה שלה. ירדן מספרת על האירוע שמשנה את חייה, תאונת דרכים שהובילה לנכות הפיזית שלה ולחוויה של חיים בכיסא גלגלים. מיכאל וירדן דנים במורכבות של זהויות להט״ב, בוחנים נושאים כמו ביטוי וחקר עצמי שמקבל זוויות מרתקות. הם משוחחים יחדיו על החשיבות בהבנה וקבלה לא רק בתוך קהילות הלהט״ב, אלא גם בחברה כולה. במהלך הפודקאסט, מיכאל וירדן נוגעים בסוגיות שעמן מתמודדים להט״ב עם נכות, כולל הצורך ביצירה מרחבים מכילים והתגברות על סטיגמות חברתיות. הם מדגישים את ההשפעה של יחסים אישיים ותמיכה קהילתית בקידום קבלה עצמית וקבלת זהויות מגוונות.
Disability and LGBTQ+
H5-1: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Michael Ross with Straight Friendly, and in this episode we'll be exploring the combination of between ness and attributes to the Atab. We'll delve into the life story of Yarden Marciano, and this
H5: of JOrdan Marciano, and in this episode, we're going to deal with the challenges that gender neutral people face, alongside their victims.
Michael: you.
Um,
And I
think we should start with your story. have you placed between how I read some of the stuff you spoke to them about and your actions you talked about about two different chapters in fact that you needed to leave from, right? Right. You have [00:01:00] a chapter on the wedding day and another on its procession which there are a lot of more around
Yarden: actually Right.
I went through the procession when I was a little girl, about five and a half, I was sitting in a car against a wall. happened uh, a truck passed by, stop, and crashed into the car I was the front desk at the military hospital.
I have a physical injury for life, and I'm basically sitting in a wheelchair. Uh, a little breathing problem. Um, deal with today, and to hold on to, in a way that is a bit more understandable That's how
Michael: young age, but it's not something that was born out of it. And I think it's the first time in the podcast that we're necessarily talking about the subject of gender, and also the notion that it's something that... [00:02:00] Sometimes there's this question of, Wait, how do you express yourself?
How do you call it? Where do you need to be politically correct? Where not? How do you see it?
Yes, wow. The truth is, like, the whole issue of politically correct, like, it's a little hard for me. Like, a lot of times I like
Yarden: um,
Michael: walking on eggshells in front of or are afraid to ask, or
Yarden: Um,
Michael: There's something about in my character, that I how to release. to it directly, and to remember the, the point, how, how they meet me. Now, is it something you feel
is right for you? Or is it also some kind of tip that is more general to people? I mean, if you meet a different person with a different personality, is it something that you can just touch?
To ask, to talk, or rather, like, what, what, what can help people to... Come on, to get the, to get the pill out of the room. [00:03:00] Maybe I'll say it, by the way, it also reminds me a little bit of uh, the
Yarden: fact that a lot of times people are confused about how to react to... Voice over. Voice over. I thought about that too.
Exactly. Yes, it's true like... I a feeling that me and trans people have a lot in common of, of... around with some kind of visual phenomenon that in the... in space um, and the reactions of people, who are always um, scared, or...
So, in my opinion, I really like putting things straight table, and I'm bit, I don't give people a um, like, to approach, this thing.[00:04:00]
On him
I met.
When did someone put a negative connotation on Like the word coccinellus, there is a whole society that relates these definitions as definitions that are negative, or... or disrespectful. And I don't think that there is anything disrespectful about being... Nechar, homo, coccinelle.
A beautiful word in my eyes. Wow,
Michael: that's
Yarden: something I don't hear a lot. A beautiful word. Why? Because I love it so much. I think [00:05:00] the trans community did something that I really appreciate. Um, this whole thing about reclaiming, of taking um, a word him in a negative way That's a word that defines me, and that's a word that overpowers me, And I change the way that I approach that word.
Or what I think it defines in Reclaiming, like... I
Michael: agree. I also think that the subject of words has a lot, a lot of meaning. They actually represent our reality. Yes. And I actually wanted to it meet you, let's say, in the lesbian world? And maybe we'll also get to the story of activism, but usually activism often starts from a personal point of view, from someone's [00:06:00] desire to fix something.
So I'm wondering if I'm getting to the right place, and if there was something there, some experiences that led to activism, and where does the story of the exit from the closet, The lesbian or other gender definition, where, where
Yarden: you? Um, First of all, it's obvious that it met me in very, very uh, attractive places and a lesbian.
that's the first definition I learned that
[00:07:00] I grew up with a gender identity. And no one ever referred to my gender identity, to my gender identity. Like, it's really not something that was different. Um, understood the, the social role I'm not supposed to be gendered. I'm not supposed to be...
It was really hard for me to do it, like... It was on the level of a [00:08:00] shock to me. Like, no one in the world could ever get close to me. In fact. suitable body, or a body that can satisfy someone else. From a real point of view. Where did these
Michael: thoughts come from?
Yarden: I guess it's, it's, it's a misrepresentation or something that, that that happened somewhere along the lack of representation of gender roles to that. And in general, yes, yes, I understood that, that, that, That the virus is linked to the inability to move. An inability to be able to move. I realized that I am not like everyone, that I am cruel. Every time I left home [00:09:00] yesterday, it collected many lots of reactions.
Um, That it is something that for me. For governed me the house. Such a... I really kind of very, very serious mindset about myself, and about how competent I am in to experience love, experience kindness, experience affiliation...
Of course. Wow, I see the depth, yes, yes. Now we're getting
Michael: to the interesting points. We're getting to the juice, yes. Yes, the juice. Um, Until
Yarden: I was old, I really didn't think that, that it would come to me was fit. how a body that itself can be attractive to someone else.
Um, And I didn't understand it. I [00:10:00] didn't think it was logical. I really thought it would be more logical for me to get up. And a marathon, as long as I have some kind of interaction And in 2021, after the Corona, during the Corona pandemic and volunteer at Yigit. Ragi organization.
I was a student at Yigi when the coronavirus, I came to volunteer. And, group that is dedicated to the Nechim and Nechot Le'atabim, And I came, like, a little bit, I don't know, lack [00:11:00] of, lack of experience, lack of knowledge. Like, I myself, like, I didn't understand at all how much I needed this group.
guide, but as a, as be in, in a way. Also the Atavit, and not just Necha. Also Necha, Necha and the Atavit. It's not something that he was afraid of. I mean, a
Michael: lot of the social media sites, so there are things on the internet, but like, in real life, today, I don't think there's too much creation today.
Maybe even a little bit of it has come down from the hill of the familiar applications. Now, so let's say I share that I'm going to a place like a women's party, for example. I share that it's something that's a lot harder,[00:12:00]
Yarden: You're talking about, like, getting to know... Getting to know, not even dating or anything like that,
Michael: which is, by the way, also great. In my opinion, it's better if it happens on the way, and it's not that it's great. I recently went on a speed dating night with a gay guy. It was a trauma for me,
Yarden: this thing, a
Michael: trauma.
It sounds traumatic, yes. Very. I also had a similar experience, and it felt very... Authentic. Yes, yes. It was, it was not good for me. I personally believe that the story of the acquaintance, whether it is friendly, or artistic, or romantic, actually comes from some place, some place far away, I don't know, like, To go, for example, to a party, or an event, or a festival, or something like [00:13:00] that.
And then, through the acquaintance of people you already know, or mutual friends, or friends of friends, then you can already, like, read, read something, and really get to know people, and more, uh, and more connections. But actually, before you can make a connection, you need some kind of space. My question is actually about...
About the same foundations. Is there one like that? I think PEGI was kind of one of the first ways which, which, which, was also strong in terms of physical characteristics to the extent that you can, I see a lot of the parties I went to at concerts and stuff, and 10, 000 floors, and it's Yeah. And just for me as a gay to go to such a place and not be looked at for what they'll say is, is, is scary.
I feel like it generally, uh.... ma'orer Ashra'a, the story of yours, and I think that even in the spaces they
Yarden: have, there's actually a lot less. It's a thing you say, Ma'orer Ashra'a, because I do go [00:14:00] to parties and stuff, mostly gay parties. And there's all kinds of responses, like, Ma'orer Ashra'a is... It's one of the most common responses.
Yes, because it requires courage.
Michael: After all, these spaces are also not that simple. We haven't talked about it yet, we haven't gotten to the subject of the concept of the body image yet. You said that it's another subject. Like, it's also a space that's not simple. It's
Yarden: not simple for anyone, I think. That's true, on the one hand.
On the other hand, like, the actual problem is you don't expect to see me at parties. I think it's really surprising for people to see a space that I'm not supposed to be escape of, of, of, wow. Um, when you're really you. middle of a club With a lot of gay people around.
[00:15:00] Um, It's something that a bit of a social challenge. Um, not really Not appropriate. It seems to me that the perception is not balanced. Girls are not supposed to be at parties. Girls are not supposed to be to the tabi or minis. So the perception, in my opinion, is what needs to change.
But
Michael: here, let's say it changes a little bit little by little, and let's say you get to a party, or a meeting uh, that's coming up, so... How do the responses, I'm not asking about the responses of the audience in the reception of the event, I'm sorry, Did you have dates? Did you make acquaintances? Did you, was it possible to get in were there
Yarden: relationships?
Like, how do you get acquainted? There was, there was a there was one relationship system that was um, wow. The biggest break I've ever had in my life. The biggest and the [00:16:00] best I've ever had. And I'm tired. And it's not simple, it's I came to from this relationship, it's really like...
All of a sudden, I tried to prove that I was worth it, even though I think I'm jumping a little bit. Like, there's a lot more to say um, But, all of thoughts in my head, that really were obstacles for me, like
Um, Many, many facts that I said, wait, no, that's not right. What did I do? Wait, I can be a transwoman. Wait, like. Wow, there's a lot to offer in sex. Wow. How amazing it is [00:17:00] to find out. And how amazing it is to suddenly change your mind and, like, label on what I can't do, suddenly put a label on how I can do it.
Like, it's suddenly something that puts you in a mode that is, like, very creative, very imaginative, and it was really a very difficult experience hand, and on the other hand, it really taught me a lot. And is that something that you came
Michael: up with, to deal with, in the meetings of the group in Higgins?
Yarden: Absolutely. Like, like, a lot of the actions are also... In matters of, like, to [00:18:00] deal with exactly these questions. Like, how can I, as you uh, sexual partner, or a partner? Um, How Um, It's a in the conversation. I can't. How they flirt. How How they initiate.
It's not anything like that, But, like, It is a conversation that, Suddenly We're zooming in on these things, Which, like, It's not in the narrative at all. Like, to be... Between husband and wife or a partner of mine for someone, or absolutely up for debate.
Um, this group, like, I wasn't, I wasn't, I don't [00:19:00] think I was at all romance connection. Like, somehow um, brought me a crazy process. Like, I I would, what I would, had all the experience and experiences I have today. Um...
Like I.[00:20:00]
Her name was Tali Wozner, and um, she was the daughter of um, Vilat Tabit. And she was really the biggest fangirl in the world. With a really outstanding personality, and, like, really a topic, really, like and she was also very queer and very completely fascinated me, and everything I thought was, like, pleasant and pure, in general, can be.
had, it was like,
It's like, it was really about these things, like, everything that I really tried to hide from myself and I was ashamed of, all the things that are connected to my presence and my presence [00:21:00] in world. Um, like, Like, her point of view on these things also made me change my mind, because she doesn't look at these things as if they're negative, or, or negative.
She looks at these things as if they're not positive, as if they're really negative. Um, which is, hand, really strange. To suddenly change your think is acceptable, that you don't accept, and suddenly say, wait a minute, no. It's basically, wow, an attractive drug for you.
Like, even turn it
Michael: into something that's beneficial. Yes, yes. Like,
Yarden: there's something special about it, there's... Yes, let's say a hand treatment, or... [00:22:00] Or things like that. Like, she... She really talked about it as a queer appearance. Like, it's queer to see... sides. And the difference in appearance.
And it was completely surprising to look at it. In this way, and not just by inspiration. It was a real change of life. Tell
Michael: me, terms these kinds of spaces, I think it's very, very clear how important it is, and it's exciting, and it's, it sounds like it changes the world for you, and the perception, and the perception itself, that it's something that's, that's very important, and it's probably also something that maybe, Wikipedia or from reading a certain book.
But in the end, it's the matter of the communities and the interpersonal connections. And just like the story of [00:23:00] again? Tali. Tali. Yes. I mean, the personal story, like, Tali really, really, really influenced. kind of spaces are there today? Like, how, how, how do other people maybe influence us?
Now or people they know, and maybe they would like to recommend, where do you find more where do you find more of these processes? I'm sure
Yarden: there's only one process, but... There's only one process. No doubt. But first of all, here at IGGY, there's the group... Which
Michael: is for what ages,
Yarden: and what areas? It's 18 plus.
It's a group on Zoom. Young men and women with physically Um, Speaking of is really little degree of And they're sort of specific to disabilities. But, you know, one reasons that, at least, reached [00:24:00] out to them, is don't know, I, at least, like I have to prove my ethnicity, my Latabianness because it's not something a society expects from me to in the space, in addition that I'm lying in the space, then things come. Energy flows, and a similar thing attracts a similar thing, a little. So today I can say that my environment is much closer to the space, and also much Nice. Something that once was very hard for me. I didn't want any boyfriends. It means something to me, that I didn't want to him. That I despaired of him, that [00:25:00] I didn't accept him. That I embarrassed of him. Um, way. Today it's completely part of my identity.
not prepared to be more embarrassed of I wanted to ask if any research or information that is
Michael: different between women and women with disabilities and non disabled women, any information that we don't know about, that could break our stigmas, or... A fact that we didn't even
Yarden: think about, and we didn't know it. Um, There's a study that was done a few years ago, which basically showed that um, women experience first sexual intercourse um, usually around the age Um, And that women who [00:26:00] experience um, actually experience first sexual intercourse at a later age um, um, so. in the middle of the 20s. A decade later. Yes. There is a term in limited studies is called fixed minority, which is something that is related to grades.
That is already um, um, wait relate to gender. To assume from the start that it doesn't exist. Um, It's apparently, to connect to a like all bodies.
tO a fellow civil. Which is something that is supposed to be very physical very... if you have the ability to, like, you always have to [00:27:00] prove yourself in terms of being more or less capable and good and evil, like they just are incapable... so, it really is a term that exists in crossed nationality studies there is also the term transcript, which is also related to good and bad, which in fact, the term is not, part in the identity of good and bad.
Because you are first and foremost good. Um, before before you are a man. Is
Michael: it because of society and the stigma that creates it, or does it also come
Yarden: from the rulers and their own laws? In my opinion, it's something that... It's a social concept. connotations. Um, it's really...
caused... I think it's sort of a [00:28:00] loop, it's kind of hard to get out of because you need to prove it. You need to prove that you are capable. No one will prove that you are capable. Is anarchy a kind of identity? It's
Michael: completely an identity. It's an
Yarden: identity, it's a
Michael: definition and even it's so strong that it's basically, from what you're telling, it's basically even, It even comes before the definition of identity.
It's something that... Absolutely. Um, That there is also, by the way, a lot of room for, and we also talked a little bit about courage, I mean, it's actually such an experience, that it's actually a little bit like living life. Of course, we are exposed to the story of difficulties and hardships. We overcome them.
There's a lot of, there's a lot of interest in, that there is a different approach to life. That there is an approach that... It's a question of taking things less literally
Yarden: than they are. Exactly, but it's also... It's again this whole thing [00:29:00] of reclaiming, of what you think that... that the word Nekhut means, and how much it dominates or...
or empowers, and how much you can look at it with pride. And not only from a place of very large pollution, and,
Michael: yes, tell us a little bit about the story of the pollution and the price of the, of the concealment of the minorities in the context of the pollution.
Yarden: I, for many years, was embarrassed by the fact that I was a girl, and, like, really, during breaks, like, in high school I would sit, like, in the back where everyone is smoking so that no one can see me.
And the fact that I'm naked, even though it's impossible to hide it. Anyone who knows me knows how obvious it is. So it really was some kind of a mental impulse to hide something that um, that [00:30:00] it's impossible to hide. So I decided to hide it. And also, in general, I had... I had sexual desire. I had sexual I was really scared of them. And I felt like I had no place to Um, And if I spoke to them, it would be a disaster. Like, really, it felt so don't have a place in this world at all. Of all, all of these things, and it really took me a whole lifetime to put this shift in my head and understand that that when I'm ashamed of my body and when I'm ashamed, I have so much energy [00:31:00] to hide myself.
And I keep quiet and ignore the desires that arise in me. And I am also prevented from creating a burden in my body. And I really only relate to it through medical communication. I am missing a healing tool. Which, which I am not. Like, really. Um, And I'm losing out on makeshift quotas. And to the extent of tons of hard work it's really like, the source of joy and everlasting life that which I couldn't imagine for [00:32:00] And because of some social prejudice, I became uh, part part of it. I also thought that um, Oh, snails, how can that attract someone? Like, full of connotations, short and... short. And not sexy, like, not at all. Um... And it's really a life's work for me um, to break these [00:33:00] beliefs and create a reality that includes both my identity and my ethnicity um, and my identity and my pride.
Um, with With everyone that I am, with all my limitations. And really, from a disability to to creativity and really to the creation of a reality that that, that I cause to everything that I, as it were, can't do and be in the world. I cause it to be, I cause it to be on the way.
In which I can do things. And I'm trying to create a reality more enabling and... creative. I want to [00:34:00] say thank you very much. Thank you. For participating in the episode. And I think that, in conclusion,
Michael: I'll try to summarize things. I think that, maybe, from what I see, the message that she wants and can get out of here, I think it's really cool.
BOth to the listeners and to the general public, that um, First of all, it proves with the story about the trans and lesbian community how natural it is for us, and how much it might be a bit late or early, but it's everywhere, even with people who are straight. And we say goodbye, and there was the revelation to the League group that it would be for people as young as possible, and that at least to get to it at the end of their 20s or 30s or 40s, maybe to reveal it a little earlier.
Maybe also the information here in this article is something that caregivers [00:35:00] can use, and also how the story of, let's say, the mention of the month of pride, the event of pride, the history of pride, They are important not only in the school, in television, and in society, but they are very important in circles, in all kinds of circles, and also in the circle of propriety, and the one and a few, which here, in fact, also has to do with the topic of the gusha, and, in fact, the um, the strengthening and the testimony of the, of the, of the miniyyut, as much as you are prepared to spend these years.
And yes, also in the circle of people who maintain propriety, and all kinds of... of people. So, hopefully it's totally right, I guess
Yarden: that he's from Absolutely! Like, apart from the things you're talking about, that was actually... It was actually, Parents for, like, kids with children with a wife friends, you ourselves to the definition of god.
Let's give her some space. And even
Michael: if they don't know how to do it, even for straight people, we recommend it. Right,
Yarden: [00:36:00] we recommend it. It's not bad if you're straight.
Michael: Exactly. You can learn here from the AGH community maybe in this area. Yarden Marciano, thank you very much. Thank you. The podcast is for the community, the audience and their friends.
So
Yarden: even if you're not from the community, we are Straight
Michael: Friendly. You can find us in all music apps, on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and also on our new website, Straight Friendly. com. Don't forget to follow us here, in the app you use to support us, and in general, to share and tell other people that this information can help them.